People are afraid to share their ideas, their authentic, true ideas. Why do you think that is? Because we were trained our entire lives to fit in different systems. Right. So first we were in our family system that, you know, we had to behave in a certain way to be accepted and to be loved and to belong somewhere. Then we were in schools that you had to behave in a certain way to belong, you know, to fit in somewhere. Then you're in a working environment where there's also a set of rules, how you should behave so you can fit and be accepted in that environment. Right. So these are all different systems where we are trained to fit in. And then all of a sudden you don't know who you are. The authentic self is much more integrated because you don't have to pretend when you change the environment who you are. That doesn't mean that you are disrespectful, but that you can still be this person the same as if you show up in this room, the same if you show up in this room. Right. So this is in a way what we all kind of a crave to be accepted, to be accepted as we are or to belong, to belong, you know, in our authentic form. Right. Because it's a risk to share our true ideas. But you mentioned something in one of your recent newsletters, which was I think called it Voice Locked. I think it was surrounding shame and using AI tools to kind of hide our true voice.
And so I guess the implication is people are instead of sharing their own idea as kind of just watering it down with more generic AI generated ideas. And I think the implication is that that's a safety choice, right? It's for fear of standing out too much. And then as a thought leader, like that's inherently what you're doing. I mean, if you want to be a thought leader, you have to kind of take a walk out on that ledge where nobody else is going, right? Yeah. So AI is in writing and communication is a shield because it basically flattens your own tone of a tone of voice, which means if you would, I don't know, you speak with me privately and you would say certain things in a certain way that you wouldn't necessarily express publicly. So this is, this is us again, trying to fit in in an environment. And we are utilizing AI. People are utilizing AI to flatten their like real thoughts and also their real language. Because like you said, it feels safer. Because emotion is not only in our personal narratives or emotional stories from our lives, but it's also in our tone. You know, it's also when you curse, that's also emotion. You and I were talking about the emotion, right? So it's in these things and how you describe and how you experience something around. And then, you know, when you type and write about these things, this is what is emotion. And if you are very guarded, if you have those protective shields, you, what AI basically does, it flattens you. It sounds great. It sounds actually perfect. The machine is made perfect. You know, mathematically, it's perfect. But it's not you. And if you're a creator and you're.
Go. I try not to interrupt, but you. Say that you use AI in your writing. I find your content still has a unique voice to it. You somehow have found it have managed to figure out how to. Maintain a voice that doesn't sound flattened. I mean, I think a lot of people also utilize AI to be faster and their content production. So I utilize AI for structuring. For example, I will transcribe my idea through dictation inside of AI. This is what I think. And I will, I don't know, I will have, I will be, I don't know, I will have a thesis on something. This is what I think about this. Is that connected with that? And then I see disconnected with this, or I will have a bitching session. And I will bitch around a certain topic in our business inside of AI. Right. And then I will, you know, structure it this entire thing through AI. So it will give me a little more structure. But that's not the end of it. Right. I still use that just as a skeleton and I still retype it, you know, physically.
I still, you know, insert my personality in it. You know, so I kind of have like a three step thing. So it's my thing, AI thing, and my own, own thing again. That, that exactly what you're saying does not happen because, of course, when we all started, you know, utilizing AI for writing. Also, I see now in my own writing before, right, one year ago or even before, there are those typical sentences. And more you are inside of it, more you see it. And of course, more you're aware, more you are trying to, okay, this is not right. This is not me. So how do I bring more myself in? I liken it to 80s synth music when all the musicians started using, you know, synthesizers and digital in their recordings. It sounds dated because it's overdone. I exactly have noticed the same thing in writing. A lot of these common phrases that people didn't notice back when they were written. You look back now a year ago, like you said, and it's, oh, that's GPT four, right? It's that model. You'll, you'll start to see like patterns. One cool trick that you can use AI for to build your own language. I don't know if I showed you or told you this, right? I built my own lexicon again with the help of AI. But I'm basically, it's my personality inspired. So I'm kind of creating my own words, right? And one layer, let's say layer four after I'm, you know, done with the skeleton and all of it, I sprinkle, because I have my lexicon database, I sprinkle again with AI. So analyze this entire text. How can we use more of my words, which is also a list of curse words. And then it gives you suggestions, right? Where can I implement? Because that is my personality. So yeah, and it's like you can hear it's not a short process. It's a, it prolongs the process in a way. It's shorter than if you would be writing, but it's still a long process. I think there's a lot of people who are intelligent. Who are on social media have something to say. And they're reluctant to package it in a way that people will actually listen to it. Why we have some of the people with the most depth, the most knowledge, the most experience. Also tend to be the most quiet. You know, fearing to expose themselves in any way to be or judged intellectually or, you know, as people, who they are or how they look or how they sound or who sees them or all of that. That is the biggest bottleneck. And with the intelligent people, it's
being afraid of making a fool of yourself as well, right? That's why all the personal branding thing is always so let's package everything in a nice spot. I personally don't believe in that. A lot of people are playing this narrative, right? This PR kind of a thing.
So it's a very, it's a scary thing. Yeah, because then, especially on LinkedIn is where I am, you know, having all this corporate environment, having ex colleagues there, ex bosses and all of that, you know, people see.
Who do you think you are? But it's more our own voice than the voice of others. Maybe somebody thinks who do you think you are, but you don't want that person around. Yeah, LinkedIn is the most risky it feels like, especially if you're coming from a corporate
and work history. And that was the last platform I posted on because it was kind of the last boat to burn. You know, if if I posted my ideas on LinkedIn,
it might be seen by potential employers, former employers. It may potentially sabotage work opportunities, but I got into the creator community a lot and stepped away from engineering. And now I'm coming back to that community in a sense. And I've got these new skills and I'm able to actually communicate ideas that speak for the community. It's something I wouldn't have been able to do two years ago. I think you're tapping now into your most natural audience or most, you know, the audience you're the most connected with.
Because this is your background, correct? Right. Yeah, I'm speaking from lived experience. I understand the industry. I understand the psychology.
The fears, the frustrations, you know, the irony, I think for a lot of people is when they're starting to create content, oftentimes it's trying to escape where they were just coming from. They want to do something totally different. You can sort of lose connection to the audience. You're actually best suited to serve. Can I tell you something motivational?
Always. There is a business, a million dollar business that is selling keychains in a shape of a vagina. So there's market for anyone and for anything.
Even if you have a bad communication, which we can also see. What's this? Did you see there's like a new Netflix documentary? What is it? Inside the manosphere? Oh, my God. Yes. Oh, yeah, I've watched it. There's also market for that. So I don't know why people are worried because, you know, a lot of Dushi Dushi situations, ships live and can breathe. Let's dive into that. What do you mean by that? People are worried. You know, how they're going to appear, how they're, you know, if they're going to be accepted, all of these things that you and I are talking about. But what I'm basically trying to say with this comparison, like there are really crap people out there that make things successful. And we have a really good people, right, that are doubting themselves. And what I'm trying to say with this funny million dollar business keychain in a shape of a vagina and, you know, all these Andrew Tate's. If there's market for this kind of thing, there is market also for the good people. Definitely. I completely agree. Yet we are also operating on platforms that reward superficiality over depth. So you have students, you have people who are seeking to be thought leaders and speak on subjects that have depth. How do they thrive on these platforms if they have topics that aren't necessarily built for a wide audience? That is a constant battle of, and it's also connected to something that I posted today of explaining things in ways that are relatable and also one trick that I introduce is. Wait, OK, let's stop right there. OK, in a way that are relatable, because that's the question we've been circling this whole time, which is why do people resist packaging their ideas in ways that will get them views or get them attention? Why are your students resistant to that? Intellectualization. In your newsletter, you're talking about that intellectualization. And I think you you link that to shame. It's a shield. It's a protective shield.
Were you ever in therapy or is this something I'm not allowed to ask? OK, you can blink once. I've been through.
Yes, I've had therapy. Yeah. But millennial hasn't had therapy. Yeah, I mean, right? Like look where we live.
Look what's happening in our lifetime.
It's a protective shield. Yes, intellectualization, protecting from emotional exposure of what I was saying previously, whether from, you know, speaking or writing clearly, as, you know, placing yourself almost like a little bit above, because you don't want to be seen too low in a sense of like ego mechanism or.
So avoiding avoiding emotion or maybe also, yeah, just an ego reflex of having others less because you don't have the full self confidence. This totally resonates for me. I mean, I've had to just hammer down my ego more and more as I've done this. And the times that I've tried to protect myself sound, I thought insightful or intelligent, it got the least connection to people who were on the other end. The receiving end of it. And I had the more I spent doing this, more time I spent doing this, I look back and I realized, oh, that was ego there. And then, you know, I try to remove it and I think I got all of it. But, you know, there's layers and you realize there's still more hanging around. And I think the more you strip away, the more you. Um, I want to use the word vulnerable, but I think that gets overused. Um, but I think the more.
You bear of your true self, the more you connect with other people because they see themselves in you. And if you are wearing ego on top of it, it just creates distance. You're like sitting on a horse and like, hey, peasants, right? Yep. It doesn't work like that. So it basically, you know, this greater job, it really humbles you. It strips you, you know, down to the bottom. There's a guy I used to play basketball with who had millions of followers on Instagram.
I won't say his name, but he his whole profile was on helping girls get bigger butts, right? And the guy was driving around in like a, uh, a cyber truck. I mean, he had a lot of success financially from, from all this, making workout programs and things like that. And I had no idea. I'd been playing with him for a year and then somebody told me, oh, he's, he's an influencer and I looked him up. So when I got into all this, I was playing with him one day and he said, hey, just, you know, wanting to get your thoughts, you know, on how to approach all this. Cause I'm, you know, I'm starting to create content and I want to, uh, I want to be I want to do well. good at it. And he said, I've been doing it 10 years and it took me a long time to have the reach I have now. And it really just comes down to making something that's valuable to the audience. And I thought, okay. Like, all right, I guess so that makes sense, but that's pretty obvious. Right. And the more time I've spent in this, the more I've had to whittle down to that like core of something valuable. Um, because I think that's that ego, it's the same time you're stripping away your ego. I think you're also getting down to something that is valuable to people. Um, the stuff that I was first creating was self serving. Like I said, trying to seem intelligent. Look at all the skills I have. Look at all the things I can create on here. I've made these visuals and I wrote this and I made my website and I'm talented. And you know, you should follow me and no one cared. And because it wasn't about them. It was about me. And, and so I think the more I've made it about them, the more I've actually created something that's valuable for them. And that only came as a result of stripping my ego. One of the first things that I also say to my students is sooner, you're able to move from overthinking about, you know, yourself and your own insecurities. And, you know, just me, me, me, or what will, you know, this person think about me or like anything that is centered around me. Sooner you move from this, from me to them. Then you are on the right path because then you start obsessing around the people that you are supposed to help.
Right. So I'm not assessing about myself anymore or insecurities or whatever in the beginning because I truly care about those things that I was telling you, right? Who I have around the people, you know, I'm building with giving care and so on. Are they progressing? What am I missing in my program? What am I missing in my teachings in a sense of serving them where I can provide them a value? What do you say when somebody comes to you and they have something they want to say? They're interested in thought leadership, but they don't want to become a content creator. I had those conversations and I was like, I just want to have a serious conversation with you. Are you aware that with this, you are going to become a content creator? So you have to accept this part, right? So this is a condition. Now people that I'm getting, the condition is that they're already creating content because I don't want to go through the same journey as like through what beginners go, content beginners with all those fears from posting and so on. People that are already posting and they have their own ideas developed. So these are the people, right, that I'm working now with and I don't need to have those conversations because they already are content creators. There's a psychological barrier that has to be sort of broken through and you're that's not your business. You're not dealing with that. You want people who've already gotten past that point. It's a little bit easier. There are still of course, like psychological obstacles, but it's easier if and I say this always. So it's better if the content creator has suffered before because then they're disillusioned, they're not in that mindset of, oh, I'm going to be my own boss. And you know, the freedom narrative that you and I also were discussing with and about. Yeah, you want them broken down before they get to you. I want them to taste life in all its color. And then I'm like, OK, now we can talk for real. Now you have built them back up. Now you're ready, my Jedi. That's I think what gives weight to our voice, our opinion, right? It's it's sort of that earned hardship and experience that makes it interesting. Nobody really wants to listen to somebody who had it easy. It's it's not very compelling story. Yeah. And also you're sick of yourself. So it's a different type of determination, right? In a in a second round after struggling for a while. And you are willing to push things in different ways. You are willing to let go of ego and, you know, all the things we were speaking before. So it's really helpful. I guess life does need to, you know, kind of a ground view if we want to use that nice version of the word that you can go and move forward. I've tried many times being frustrated with my content creation process. Yeah. How do you draw the line between being vulnerable and trauma dumping? I think it never is from a malicious way. It's more from a desperation way wanting or needing attention or attendance from somebody. You get rewarded for it on social media, at least in terms of distribution, because it gets attention and there's a poll to lean into what's working. I pride myself on being self-aware and I feel it. It's something works. And, you know, you post one after another and they kind of fall flat. And suddenly one breaks through. I mean, there's a natural inclination to do it again or to try to recreate that. And so I think when people are trauma dumping or being vulnerable, and it works, they have a tendency to dial it up, to do it even more than next time. And I don't think that creates or leads to thought leadership necessarily. Actually, I think it harms it probably, but people don't know, you know, until it's too late sometimes. But a lot of people on their teach vulnerability as part of authenticity. I'm assuming that's part of your advice that people infuse their true self and our true self. If it's there and it's present in our content, it's inherently making us vulnerable in a way. How do you find that line? My students are also asking me and my clients, right? What is the line? And I'm like, how much are you comfortable? Like, are you able to look at this stuff tomorrow and you would be still proud of yourself? Or would you regret it? Or would you shame yourself? Or would you write the things that you're sharing? So each of us, we have very different levels of the comfort of what is acceptable or not. And then we can decide is, you know, this person that is in this, somebody that I kind of resonate with or not. I don't have a definition of what is the line. I just know that I prefer a little bit more still arm art communication, which is very funny since, you know, I speak very openly. But in terms of that kind of vulnerability of personal life or personal trauma, since so on, I haven't shared a lot at all. Like, I don't even know if I did share it that much. You're sharing your newsletter, I think. Lately, I'm opening more up on newsletters. But all of the topics that I'm covering is also part of the research. Yes. What I'm seeing that others are struggling with, right? The questions of shame, of the ego, of the envy. This is exactly the situations that I'm facing with clients. And these are the situations where you start thinking and obsessing around yourself instead of you obsessing and thinking around, you know, solving things for the people you serve. It's trauma dumping when you're the focus, when it's about just you. And you're showing your experience or wound versus sharing that story
for the benefit of your audience with having them in mind. I think it reads very differently. I think the audience can feel that. I mean, for me, the line is crossed when there's a call to action. At the end of very sensitive story, then we're done. But that's in my scenario, right? If there is a call to action at the end of a very sad, heartbreaking story, we're done. OK, so you do have a line. We just found it. It's one thing to share something, you know, in an attempt to connect, to create more bonds with people or just trying to process whatever you're going through, even if it's very heavy and difficult. But if you put call to action there and a link to newsletter or to, I don't know, something that you're selling, yes, I have, I have personal issues with that. You get away with talking about how judgmental you can be in your content. I think it serves you. You know, it's unfiltered in a way. You're honest about, hey, I like some people and there are some people I don't like or some things that people do that I really don't like. And I will, I will call it out.
It's, I appreciate that when reading your content. And yet at the same time, I try to find the line that works for me. Because, you know, if I, I could be all hot takes if I, if I'm not careful. And then, you know, I think I lose some of the currency of authority that I've built through more thoughtful content. So I have to try to balance, balance that, which I guess you must be doing. I definitely do. Mostly because of not because of the self, you know, self-preservation or something. I really try not to be a douchebag because I know that I can be. And I truly, like, I really don't want to hurt anyone. It's not my prime attention. So if I, you know, look through my things with some kind of a.
I usually scan for these kind of things. Am I being a douchebag or, you know, it's not because of me or that I would be afraid of backlash or something. It's more about, because some creators I had situation, even though, you know, I was not even referring to them, but they found themselves inside of what I was writing. And they felt judged. And I felt really bad for them because that was not my intention, right? So it's more. I don't, it's not, it's not my intention. It's just not my intention, you know, to hurt anyone or discourage from whatever journey they're on. You should put a disclaimer at the bottom, you know, like these, all characters mentioned are fictionalized, like they do at the end of movies.
Any resemblance to real people is merely coincidence. Maybe I should look at what Netflix is doing to avoid lawsuits. Yeah. Yeah. I've actually, I volumed it down a lot in comparison to some things that I was posting, but it's only because, and I don't feel that I'm being, you know, that, that my voice has been taken. It's just that I'm much more aware of people around me. And I really want to have more positive effects than, and I have more pleasure out of that than from me lashing out and be artistically provocative, which I, you know, a lot of times can be. So that has more value of how, you know, if people around me feel encouraged, because it's a difficult path we're on. You're dialing down the artistic provocation. Yeah. Oh my God. Side of your. Did you see my previous content like one year ago or two years ago or? Yeah, no, I've noticed. Um, I thought I was hoping it was temporary. I like that. I like your provocative content. I mean, in our own conversations, I've, you know, called you the Batman of LinkedIn, you know, or bat woman. I think there was a bat girl or something, but, you know, whatever, you can be Batman. Um, yeah, I, I, your content was very hard hitting. And, you know, visually striking or sometimes, you know, borderline disturbing. I mean, not borderline. Yeah. There were some things that probably would be categorized as graphic even. Oh, I. Some of the visuals. I mean, you have, you have like a amputated heart, I think I'm one of yours with a knife through it or something. And I mean, like these are disturbing photos for a lot of people. Um, you know, so I think it's interesting. I, it's a scroll stopper. That's for sure. And that compared to moderating zoom calls. I think that's a different vibe entirely. Mm hmm. What do you mean? Explain. So you've got that avatar that I spoke about. You've got that avatar who.
She's in the darkness of the night in the, all of the video, all the, the visuals moving through the city, you know, almost tagging or, or you've got the feel that. The vibe that she's.
Putting this message up in, you know, cloak and dagger that people discover in the morning, that's kind of what it feels like, especially because LinkedIn feels like such a office watering hole. It's almost like your character came and tagged the side of the building and people came and see it in the morning on their way into the office. Right. You know, and then. Contrast that with. You moderating scaling authority. Workshops and. It's a very different vibe. You are now part of the, you know, water cooler talk as opposed to. The, the vigilante or rebel. I'm thinking a lot about this topic lately. Um, because that is my, my other self. You know me enough, I think up to this point, like this darkness is, you know, that vigilante, as you say, that is also part of my character. Um, and it's also part of my art and, you know, maybe some darker parts of me or sadness So it's all of this is me. or whatever. So it's just a question of how I'm going to present this. Right. I still, you know, want to keep this. And, um, the question is just off the packaging. How I'm going to repackage this, because also the, the newsletter was renamed. You saw that. I went away better on purpose and went into the thought readership. Uh, so I'm definitely doing some tweaks and, um, this is what it takes. That's why I'm ignoring messages because I'm literally tweaking all of these things in a backhand and I have many, many more things, you know, to, um, I'm kind of a repositioning myself or let's say calibrating more precisely as I'm developing. And this is something also that I'm saying, right? We keep repositioning ourselves as we're online. It's not a one thing that I'm going to position myself and then I'm going to keep selling this. One of the things I keep bringing up is influence versus thought leadership. Do you see those two things as being on opposite ends of the spectrum? The words influencer, we have already so much history. Right. If you try to attach it like anywhere, it mugs the entire thing, just the word influencer and what we understand under the influencer. But, um, yeah, you are definitely correct. Thought leaderships or thought leaders are influencers as well. So they're influencing certain movement or beliefs and so on. But because this word is so mudded and so dirty at this point, right? Nobody wants to be an influencer. So there, there's definitely relation, but it's just what comes to our mind when we think of the world, word influencer. Like I'm in the evening when I'm scrolling, you know, Instagram and looking at those reels, people that are recreating the same scenes, the scene that went viral and they're recreating the same scenes all over again. You know, I'm like, this is your entire life. And like their entire profile is this, this is an influencer in my mind. And of course, when you put this word on something that's more serious, well, you said nobody wants to be an influencer. I think there's an entire generation that wants, aspires to be influencers. It keeps coming up and in surveys that young people today want to be YouTubers more than they want to be doctors. So I think there is a generation that wants to be an influencer. I think the people that you attract that want to be thought leaders, they're probably older. They're probably Gen X and older millennials.
OK, yeah, I mean, I'm glad that there are people who are Gen Z that you're attracting as well. It's encouraging to hear. I still think that it's Gen X and older millennials that cringe at the idea of being associated with influencers, whereas I bet Gen Z probably doesn't have the same hang up or stigma toward them. I would again say it's connected to what is their educational background or, you know, how seriously they take themselves. There's a cultural aspect because there's also a huge difference between, you know, USA and Europe, just in general, let's put Europe in one basket. So many countries in terms of how many people want to be seen on the video, want to be public, right, in Europe. In every country, we have a version of, you know, stay small, be quiet, and work hard because this is how you're going to be respected. So a lot of languages, you know, in Europe have the variation of this exact motto or, you know, conviction or a way of living. It's not just generational generational. There's multiple factors. And I mainly have the millennials and Gen Zs that I'm working with now. So I have one Xer. So it's not, I don't think it's generational. If someone wants to be a thought leader, what should they do? Have your own thoughts for starters. I think that works. All right, Sandra, as always, it's thought provoking and provocative.
